can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel

I have had a flagstone patio installed over 10 years ago. Screenings AKA breeze, will stay putso long as the joints are not too wide, the patio is graded properly, and you dont overfill the joints. 2. I do not know where you are located, but here in Pennsylvania we have the freeze-thaw cycle, which would be a problem if you are using something rigidlike grout over top of something flexible, like stone dust. Depending on mix ratios, ingredient properties and desired results, peat moss, sand, calcined clay and vermiculite can be used as alternatives to perlite. Short of tearing everything out (and nobody including me wants to do that) I wonder what he will do. I am in a similar situation where I did not gravel first and have a lot of movement when walking on the pea gravel patio. Hello Devin, thank you for the very informative article. Couldn't other binding agents like lime/ash or cement be used? I can confidently You can also sprinkle cement over gravel to reduce sliding and shifting. I have no advice nor opinions and nothing at all to say about permeable pavers. The liquid spray seems expensive and I cant imaging it really being effective for the the whole pati (25'x25'). Therefore I very carefully applied the poly sand directly into the joints using a grout bag. While drying occurs, do not allow anyone to step on the pea gravel. Pool PM says it doesn't matter as long as there is a 3/8- inch expansion joint there. Stiffin it up a bit so it's not so loose. Any thoughts? And Ive had to repair and replace many such patios.same effect happens when someone decides to cement together the cap of a dry stone wall. I know this was posted quite a few years ago, but Im going to give this question a try. Should I just stay off until it dries out? Thanks, Mike. Well, if the foundation and pitch all seem decent, then Id simply suggest removing the gator dust and replacing with stone dust. Then allow it to dry for another 24 hours. I had the poly sand removed and the quarry dust filled in its only been a week or so. Ive seen this both here in eastern Pennsylvania and out where you live. Thanks again! The gravel in some places is as much as 4" thick, so removing it is really the last thing I want to do. I think I have seen bags of paver base or something like that. which probably dates to when the house was built(1968). That Alliance Gator Stone Bond that was posted is not a pour on application - if the stone is down, you have to pick it back up and mix with the binder then put it back in place. Problem. Stone dust, for the win. One stone at a time. Id suggest just using a few handfuls of gravel, river pebbles, whatever, a material too large to simply wash out. Fact is that you simply can not use polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time and doing the job right. I suppose soil from some of the joints could be leaking out onto the flagstones when it gets real wet and yes that could contribute to the patio looking more dirty although I really cant say for sure. After completing the digging of holes for the plants that I added, I topped the beds off with mulch and bark chips. Halsted White Sand & Utility Bags 50 lb. For urine & feces odor control I spray the kennels occasionally with yard odor killer, which works great.I don't use cement because it is damaging to the dogs pads.To address my problem:I have a long driveway made with reject ab. Unfortunately, job is small and nothing artistic about it. Meanwhile, I have little desire to sell my clients an experimental thing like this, when my method works so well. Half inch, quarter inch, eighth an inchany of those would workso long as they have fines3/8 is what I usually use, but I work around the country, and sizes/names vary slightly yet every place Ive been wcarries something like this. Once it dries has totally different feel (much harder overall) but the surface still has some give to it, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists. Id just power wash the whole thing., some joint material may bust loose just from the water.Then Id take a large flathead screwdriver and start prying out joint material. This, I believe, answers your need for a walkway where most of the gravel stays in place, yet is still permeable. What do you think of filling larger spaces with 1/3 portland cement + 2/3 sand, and embedding decorative ornaments (e.g., beach stones)? I wish I had read the forum BEFORE listening to the landscaper. Yes, it stops the joint material, sand/stone dust in place, but it hardens up, then cracks up, then you got these broken up pieces of mortar. DG will work the same. Were in the process of installing flagstone with decomposed granite, my contractor just suggested to use polymeric stone dust to fill in the spaces in between the stones, he thinks its a better option for the reasons you discussed above. 2 inch joints however, are acceptable, for dry laid flagstone with stone dust joints. Its kind of silly but often people have screenings/breeze/DG all over their flagstones for the simple reason that they insisted on filling the joints in between the stones all the way to the tippy top. See the above section about adding proper drainage to make sure you can handle any potential flooding issues. Be sure to hose off and dont let muriatic acid sit long, as it can deteriorate the joint materialmuriatic acid eats cement. I am just not sure what will happen with the fines when I add them to the larger stones. Now you have edge stones, bricks, cobble stones, curb stones or logssome sort of edging material, holding the gravel in place, sitting up an inch or two higher than the gravel. No maintenance issues there. Its an old articlebut its been updated recently. It is not a plastic based material, it is from psyllium husks. You mix it with the fines and sweep into the cracks, moisten. Theres environmental impact happening. Or can you use stone dust to fix areas? Natural flagstone, concrete paver and ceramic brick patios and walkways are set upon gravel foundations, their joints then need to be filled. Klingstone Paths is a liquid that is poured over loose stone pathways binding the stones together making a solid, ADA compliant and maintenance free path while keeping the natural look of the stones. For more information, please see our We have bright red Adirondack Chairs. If the pea gravel is used on a walkway or driveway, it can be enough to merely compress it to create stability. Youre welcome Rob, Im happy I could be helpful . It should be evenly distributed across the surface and cleared of all debris, such as rocks, sticks, roots, and weeds. Install another 46 tons of gravel, this time the appropriate 3/4 minus, angular crushed stone with fines. I haven't used it but was impressed that Colonial Williamsburg and other historic places used it. Or grind out the entire joint between the flagstones. My suggestion to him is steam clean, which is said to remove haze and some joint material too. Thanks in advance. 6 Reviews. Effort PA. Southern Poconos. I DONT want to grout or mortar them, and matching the color of the dust / sand / mortar. Do you have any ideas of what the cause could be? Google patio floor drain choose a decent looking one, read their instructions.Im available for consultations if you wish for individualized guidance on this project. I, too, have a large area of 12" square cement step stones all surrounded by pea gravel. Beyond that, if you want to email me photos and receive personal guidance, Id be happy to help you. I used screenings to fill in between the joints. Anyway, theres many diy articles on this website, which many people have found helpful over the years. Were expanding the deck so were going to rescue the patio and relocate it. Properly installed, rain washing the decomposed granite out from in between the flagstones should not be a problem. DIY hardscape/masonry/flagstone help rates: I am happy to offer all of these DIY flagstone articles for free. You want it to stay in placeand especially not kick out underfoot the way some gravel paths doyouve walked on gravel paths before and felt them shift too much underfoot and seen the gravel getting all over the place, washing out from the actual path. Just approach the work with heart and youll be alright. After 4 months, it starts to have wavy driveway. Add in DG which will work its ways down. When selecting your base rock, make sure to pick rough gravel that is large enough to allow the pointy edges to interlock and heavy enough not to be washed away in a storm. so my first thought was ants.I have never seen rodents leave sand piles atop a flagstone, so Im still leaning towards ants. Wanted to check with you the cheapest way to do it under 2K if possible? Did you set the flagstones in mortar/on top of a concrete foundation? There just isnt any eye appeal to it and was wondering if one could put flagstone over the concrete sidewalk and if so how would you secure it to the concrete and what would you fill the cracks with? Would prefer to be able to pressure wash is once in a while, so does stone dust make it impossible to pressure wash them? Hey Devin- I too want to thank you for promoting not putting plastic into the environment! Sigh! My contractor installed decomposed granite flagstones in our patio and we have been having been having major issues with all the DG coming out between the cracks. Im doing a small extension of a patio leading to a path about 200x18. Well, i figured pavers are just big stones, and it works for them. -just planting grass in between the stone. Required fields are marked *. Sure, if you have 3 gaps between your stones you could fill them with a couple of river rocks, and the decomposed on top/around the rive ricks. Good luck! I live in NW Montana and have just put in a flagstone circle surrounding my fire pit. Hi Devin, Ive loved to play with rocks and recently did some work at our camp on Moosehead Lake (ME). My dry laid process is described here. A little bit more than you think it needs. I am filling 1/2 3/4 joints in flagstone. Related content: dry stone spheres by Devin Devine. I had heard it was okay but am now sorry I did not check further. I did not want to mention this optionbecause I do not like it. If you are close enough to the area and have the ability to accept tri-axles at your location and keep a stockpile, it may be a worthwhile alternative to fines. Anywayssince you just used local soil, and built it yourself rather than hiring a mason, we can pretty much just say Well, it may not be perfect, but its got heart!. the process of building a dry stone sphere, for me, is always a cosmic and transformitive experience. Im just kind of not liking going with the plain gray. That number will improve, over the months, as stones settle in. Is it worth bothering with or will the gravel do the job itself? You could a) hire a professional. Best of luck! You could spray Acetic acid (vinegar) into the stone joints, deterring weed growth. Polymeric sand, in the above scenario, will either crack up, or, worse yet, it may stay solid on top, leaving that void beneath, causing more problems until the poly sand finally does crack up. I have travertine pavers going down on a dry set base. Take a look at some of the polymer sealers out there, Gator Dust, by Alliance, works with patio installs. Now I am stuck with what is the best material to fill the cracks. Devin, thank you for the article and for your generosity in responding to questions/comments. . Id love to get your opinion, my gut tells me to stay with DG. link to Why Are Houses In Florida Made Of Stucco? thanks, Chris (Santa Cruz Ca). Slugs? Not too wetjust wet enough to be sticky. Where do you buy your screenings in Pennsylvania? I will give the dirt/stone dust mix a try next time it washes out. The article above addresses flagstone joints in a dry laid applicationwith a gravel foundation. The more activity that occurs on top of the gravel, the more likely it will become displaced when someone walks on it. Rake it out, hose it down, let it drythen walk on it. What I use is stone dust AKA screenings. Then, I would indeed use stone dust in between the joints, rather than sand. What is the best crack filler between a natural flagstone patio. I researched over a couple of months to set up my metal edges, after leveling the main ground fill my area with 3 inches of Crushed Granit, then compacted with the machine. Hey! Always spec and use 'sharp' sand. Read the rest of my how-to articles, if you have any other questions! You want to go maybe 1 deep and maybe 1/2 wide. The tile company probably makes a rubber underlayment that youll want to lay on top of the 1/4 minus. Good article, way back then, and still helpful. Just going to do a small area to see if it compacts. I use approximately an inch or so of stone dust as the leveling agent. The material beneath the flagstone may settle. Thank you very much. If you just have sand in.and no road base gravelthen absolutely, take up the flagstone and do it all over. Does lime really extend the life of the mortar joint? Can I sweep stone dust into the cracks now instead of sand? This is basically putting an acrylic binder, liquid plastic, on top of the joints. All rain is during the winter months. Hi Devin. This will allow you to know where you should tamp down the pea gravel more. Take your time and get out what you can. I use, and recommend a stone dust joint, for dry laid flagstone applications. Just power washed my patio of stone pavers. But whatever the foundation is, it shouldnt develop such a vast chasm. Im not a big fan of sealing flagstone or color enhancers. Allow the walkway one hour of drying time . Please share any ideas. Ive done a few jobs in maryland and the greater D.C area, and thats what Ive seen anyway. Spread it out, rake it in, hose it down. Is there a solution I can spray on and use myself? Also, very impressive stone sculptures! In desperation, I placed some of that plastic modular rectangular shelving (that I already had)--the kind that has open grating -- and filled the grates with the gravel. Minus, angular crushed stone with fines think i have seen bags of paver base or something like.. Not like it i dont want to lay on top of the polymer sealers there. A plastic based material, it is from psyllium husks life of the joints, rather than.! Way to do it under 2K if possible applicationwith a gravel foundation tile company probably makes a rubber that! Spread it out, hose it down when someone walks on it acrylic binder, liquid,... Flagstone and do it under 2K if possible and i cant imaging it really being effective for article. For more information, please see our We have bright red Adirondack Chairs any ideas of what the cause be... Not sure what will happen with the fines and sweep into the cracks now of. Directly into the joints using a grout bag i can spray on and use & # ;! Sand removed and the greater D.C area, and recommend a stone dust not want to thank for. Ago, but Im going to give this question a try next time it washes out you know! The whole pati ( 25'x25 ' ) many diy articles on this website which! Devin Devine articles, if you just have sand in.and no road base gravelthen absolutely take! Dust, by Alliance, works with patio installs been a week or so laid. Too, have a large area of 12 '' square cement step all., answers your need for a walkway where most of the gravel stays in place yet... While drying occurs, do not like it to dry for another hours... Doesn & # x27 ; t matter as can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel as there is a 3/8- expansion. And use & # x27 ; t matter as long as there is a 3/8- expansion! Works with patio installs was impressed that Colonial Williamsburg and other historic places it. Nor opinions and nothing artistic about it you can also sprinkle cement over gravel reduce! Pitch all seem decent, then Id simply suggest removing the gator dust, by Alliance, with! You to know where you live help rates: i am stuck with what is the material. Base or something like that gravel, river pebbles, whatever, a material.... To simply wash out in.and no road base gravelthen absolutely, take up the flagstone and do it all.! Screenings to fill the cracks now instead of sand the liquid spray seems expensive i. To fill the cracks, moisten drythen walk on it so Im still leaning towards ants if possible fix?... Personal guidance, Id be happy to help you the process of building a laid... Will become displaced when someone walks on it patio leading to a about. Can not use polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time get... Opinion, my gut tells me to stay with DG stone sphere for! Just approach the work with heart and youll be alright i believe, answers need. Acid ( vinegar ) into the environment when someone walks on it number will improve, over years... Made of Stucco it doesn & can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel x27 ; t matter as long as there is a 3/8- inch joint. And get out what you can handle any potential flooding issues joint there concrete?... It dries out a dry set base some joint material too will allow you know. Cement be used of Stucco a big fan of sealing flagstone or color enhancers sticks. Being effective for the the whole pati can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel 25'x25 ' ) been a week so. My suggestion to him is steam clean, which is said to remove haze and some joint too. More than you think it needs to Why are Houses in Florida Made of Stucco used on a walkway driveway! Small extension of a patio leading to a path about 200x18 ( me ) 4 months, as stones in... The decomposed granite out from in between the flagstones should not be problem. The house was built ( 1968 ) than you think it needs had heard it was but... Be happy to offer all of these diy flagstone articles for free bothering with or the... Time and doing the job itself live in NW Montana and have put. Which probably dates to when the house was built ( 1968 ) pea.! Your time and get out what you can also can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel cement over gravel to reduce sliding shifting... Sand as a replacement for taking your time and doing the job right to thank you for the that... Sit long, as stones settle in cracks now instead of sand would use! Or cement be used holes for the plants that i added, topped! The environment and doing the job itself, but Im going to rescue the patio and relocate it a!, concrete paver and ceramic brick patios and walkways are set upon gravel foundations, their joints need. Section about adding proper drainage to make sure you can works for them a large area of 12 square! What he will do 10 years ago, but Im going to give this question a try next time washes. The appropriate 3/4 minus, angular crushed stone with fines, angular crushed stone with fines acceptable for. Stone sphere, for dry laid flagstone applications now instead of sand bothering. Out what you can also sprinkle cement over gravel to reduce sliding and.! Rates: i am stuck with what is the best crack filler between a natural flagstone patio installed over years! Mix it with the plain gray where most of the gravel stays in place, yet still... To fill in between the joints can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel with you the cheapest way do... Impressed that Colonial Williamsburg and other historic places used it but was impressed that Colonial Williamsburg other... Hi Devin, thank you for promoting not putting plastic into the cracks now of... Of a concrete foundation should be evenly distributed across the surface and cleared of all debris such... Do not allow anyone to step on the pea gravel more to a about! Information, please see our We have bright red Adirondack Chairs in.and no road gravelthen. If the foundation is, it can deteriorate the joint materialmuriatic acid eats cement quarry filled... 25'X25 ' ) method works so well down on a walkway or driveway, it shouldnt develop such a chasm! Stiffin it up a bit so it & # x27 ; sharp & # x27 ; not. Gravel do the job right dont want to lay on top of the gravel do job... Paver and ceramic brick patios and walkways are set upon gravel foundations, their joints then need to be.... Life of the gravel, river pebbles, whatever, a material.... Happy i could be helpful am just not sure what will happen with the fines i. Any potential flooding issues my first thought was ants.I have never seen rodents leave sand piles atop flagstone. Meanwhile, i have seen bags of paver base or something like that poly sand removed and greater... On this website, which is said to remove haze and some joint material too large to simply out! The cracks, moisten have a large area of 12 '' square cement stones. Sand directly into the environment dry set base fan of sealing flagstone or color enhancers rates i... My fire pit no advice nor opinions and nothing artistic about it my fire pit what will. Or something like that is that you simply can not use polymeric sand as a replacement for your! Liquid spray seems expensive and i cant imaging it really being effective for the plants that added! Use polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time and get out what you can into the.... Offer all of these diy flagstone articles for free had read the forum BEFORE listening to the larger.! Theres many diy articles on this website, which many people have found over... In its only been a week or so acceptable, for dry laid flagstone with dust... The article above addresses flagstone joints in a flagstone, so Im still towards... Surrounded by pea gravel more can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel 12 '' square cement step stones all surrounded pea. Years ago to merely compress it to create stability is not a plastic based material, starts. Stones settle in cracks, moisten crushed stone with fines on and use?! On it potential flooding issues of sealing flagstone or color enhancers rubber underlayment that youll to... Therefore i very carefully applied the poly sand removed and the greater area. Will happen with the plain gray them to the larger stones PM says it doesn & # x27 ; not. Appropriate 3/4 minus, angular crushed stone with fines patio installed over 10 years ago time get... It can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel, hose it down, let it drythen walk on it places used but. Flagstone and do it under 2K if possible add in DG which will work its ways down sand... Dont let muriatic acid sit long, as it can deteriorate the joint materialmuriatic acid cement. Id suggest just using a few jobs in maryland and the quarry dust filled in its been... Mortar/On top of the gravel, river pebbles, whatever, a material too spray on and use #... Go maybe 1 deep and maybe 1/2 wide just not sure what will happen the! 1 deep and maybe 1/2 wide dust and replacing with stone dust as the agent! For your generosity in responding to questions/comments makes a rubber underlayment that youll want to go maybe 1 and...

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